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huge crayon 41 posts 04-25-03 05:18 Reply	Abortion. About me: I'm a seventeen year old female from Arizona. Born in Minnesota, raised in South Carolina. Not particularly religious but I do consider myself to be a Christian. My official opinion: Abortion should be illegal unless the pregnancy is a detriment to the mother's health and if the baby was conceived under unusual circumstances such as rape or incest. My reasons for having that opinion: A life is a life. If you think along the lines of "I brought you into this world, I can take you out," stop reading. That excuse won't work with me. I used to think that abortion was ok as long as it is in the first trimester of the pregnancy. Then I saw a picture of a baby who was 2 months old. It had feet. It had the potential to walk on this great Earth. But that potential was taken away from it. Since then, I began to believe that no abortion is right. The ways that abortions occur are extremely disgusting. Smashing the brain, cutting the baby, poisoning the baby. What is humane about that? It's a baby. A baby who, thanks to the abortion, has no chance to make anything of itself. I hate people who don't own up to their responsibilities. Especially teenagers. If you think that you are responsible and mature enough to have sex, you surely are responsible enough to have a child. I think that the Morning After pill is a disgusting idea. "I was too drunk last night to use protection.. but no worries, I've sobered up enough this morning to take the pill." That's what it sounds like to me. Our society is so corrupt that one can have casual sex without any consequences. There are millions of people who want to have kids but can't. The people who are having abortions are not only denying babies the right to live, they are also denying people from raising children. My humanities teacher has adopted 3 kids already and he couldn't be any happier. I am very thankful that Bush shares in this view. I think that the government should discourage abortion and make it illegal. Abortion is murder. Murder is illegal. Therfore, abortion should be illegal. My question to you: What are your opinions on abortion? Should it be legal? Is it the government's role to regulate such activities? PS: This is in the religion section because Michael told me to put it here.
huge crayon 41 posts 04-25-03 05:20 Reply	Forgot this link... in case anyone wants to see pictures. V. v. disgusting. http://www.gravityteen.com/pregnancy/images.cfm
Yangster 71 posts 04-25-03 05:31 Reply	What about condom failure or something? Would that be alright for abortion? Think about this, before an egg is fertilised, it is still alive... Same with sperm, it is alive too... So condoms are killing billions of little lives... If they ban abortion, they should also ban hunting sports... That is also killing lives... Adult ones too... Just because they are animals doesn't mean they aren't lives... They are more intelligent than 2 month old babies... And God killed people too... So technically, he/she/it's a hipocrite who broke the law... If abortion was banned, then people who don't want kids would be selling them over the internet, dumping and neglecting them... Which is worse than abortion... It's like banning smoking, then people would start smuggling...
Darcy 88 posts 04-25-03 06:03 Reply	Hmm....I'm generally pro-choice, but I really don't know where I stand with partial-birth (the idea itself grossed me out, but I guess if the mother's life is in danger.....) "A life is a life" Well, it depends on how you define 'life.' This is a really touchy subject for many people, so I usually try to stay away from it. But to put it simply - no, I don't think it should be illegal, but yes, I think there should be restrictions on it. And about abortion being disgusting.... Well, medical procedures tend to be gory and grotesque. War is bloody and gross and can be considered as mass murder as well, but a majority of Americans find it necessary. Ok, before I get yelled at and flamed as a "murderer" or "baby-killer" or whatnot, here's my personal stance on abortion: Would I ever get one myself? No. Primarily because of personal and religious reasons. But would I ever stop another woman from getting one? No....because that's her choice, and I don't like to impose my religious morals on others.
Yangster 71 posts 04-25-03 06:07 Reply	YOU MURDERER AND BABY-KILLER! (j/k) :)
Darcy 88 posts 04-25-03 06:08 Reply	....... Lol....you scared me there for a moment, Yangster
Jbirk 54 posts 04-25-03 06:57 Reply	I have mixed opinions about this issue. 1. The woman does have a hude emotional, biological, and fiscal responsibility. 2. If it is her fault e.g. something she should not have done, then I think it very wrong for her to take abortion as a way out of resopnsibilitym, but if the baby was forced upon her then I feel that she should still have the baby then decide after having it if she wants to keep it or not. 3. If there is something serriously wrong with the baby, or it will seriously harm or kill the mother, then I feel it okay to have an aboution as an option. 4. I do not want to impose my beliefs upon others, but I do think that the decision should not be made without much prior thought, counceling, et cetera. Basically, if the woman is just upset, I think she needs to reflect upon her self for a very long time before makeing a decision. Basically, I am against abortion, but do not think the government should get involved.
Yangster 71 posts 04-25-03 07:00 Reply	I just want to point out... If an unwilling mother is denied an abortion, she may turn to other methods... Selling babies over the internet has happened before and is illegal...
Xathien 1255 posts 04-25-03 18:45 Reply	I say give the babies a chance. They may be our next (i.e. first) good president, the person who cures cancer, maybe even the next shudder Devil's Acolyte (a.k.a Bill Gates). If they don't want to have babies, they should either get castrated, get fixed, or abstain. About the sperm and eggs, those are not humans... yet. If we're going to be so pissy about child abuse (like if you leave your child in a car for an hour when you go into a store), abortion is just another form of it. It's okay, right up until the time that the egg is fertilized and becomes a human organism.
Barrett 385 posts 04-25-03 19:28 Reply	i haven't given this a lot of thought, but i for the most parta gree with huge crayon. If the baby is going to kill the mother before 9 months, i'm sure it's ok - better 1 life than 2 lives. If the baby is going to kill the mother after 9 months (during birth or something, i'm not sure if they can determine if that will happen - i doubt it) - then that's the mother's choice - either the mother or the baby will die... if she is still young and was planning on having more children in the future, then she'll probably choose the baby. I'm not sure about rape, though. Afterall, it is still a human life - even if it was unwanted. I'd have to research it more but i'm not sure. Condom failure? TOUGH LUCK - it was your decision. Then of course if there are other circumstances (which will occur more often in the condom failure category) that may change that, but i'm not gonna list them all.
AcDecMan 111 posts 04-25-03 22:49 Reply	Im with Hieu on this...I upright do not support abortion. But Yangster is right...there are many other things that should be stopped in this world. Abortion clinics should be illegal. Abortion techniques should be illegal. But marijuana is illegal and I know over 100 people who smoke it regularly. I'm sorry, but this is America, you really arent going to get busted for doing these illegal activities. And abortion is a nearly impossible thing for someone to get arrested for. Seriously. It's sad. But I'm not with Bush on this issue. I'm with his advisors. If Bush had the morality or brains to actually support ridding of abortion, then I would be with him on the issue. Actually, for those people who claim to be conservative or liberal, using the government to stop abortion is actually a liberal action. So for all you right-wingers, watch what you say...
huge crayon 41 posts 04-25-03 22:57 Reply	Everytime that you have sex, there is a risk involved. Condom failure or not, there's always more precautions that can be taken. You cannot put animals on the same plane as human beings. "They are more intelligent than 2 month old babies..." Really? Do they have the same potential as a 2 month old baby? No. A baby has the potential to make this world a better place when an animal does not. You also cannot put God on the same plane as humans. But because you did, God doesn't say "Oh, I made a mistake. You die." He gave us all chances to be good. Abortion takes away that chance. Have you ever heard of the Safe Baby Program? Basically, it's a program where mothers can give up their babies anonymously to a hospital with no questions asked. It's not that people a ignorant to these problems. That's why we have so many alternatives. I know I'm being idealistic in saying that abortion should be illegal. But I agree with Darcy that there should be restrictions on it if it continues to be legal. Strict ones too. Okay, how about this. Should there be restrictions on abortion, and if so, what?
Yangster 71 posts 04-25-03 23:02 Reply	Potential... Ahem, that's for babies that are brought up properly... An ill treated child or a neglected child will most likely grow up a criminal... And then they'll get capital punishment, which means they just die later than earlier... And maybe kill some other people...
Barrett 385 posts 04-25-03 23:37 Reply	Yangster, that comment makes me want to shoot you. EVERYONE has times in their life when they are greatful to be alive; unless they die before they are old enough. Who's to say which babies are going to be happy and which ones are not? We're not talking about what they can do for the world, but how happy they could be in the future. WHY doesn't that person get a chance? On your wedding day, if you ever get married, ask yourself if you think it would have been ok if you were aborted.
Darcy 88 posts 04-25-03 23:43 Reply	I see that I am in the minority here...... I generally do not have a problem with abortion during early pregnancy, but it is partial-birth abortion that hesitates me on the subject. I can't think of a reason why that would be the only option left (unless, of course, the mother's life is endangered). Simply put, I think abortion should definitely be allowed sans restrictions to women in the following cases: -rape -incest -mother's life in danger -something seriously wrong with the fetus I'm hearing a lot of arguments that make motherhood sounds like a punishment for indulging in sex. I can't really imagine forcing a woman in the abovementioned circumstances to go through the excruciating pain of childbirth for an offspring she doesn't even want. About restrictions on legalized abortions: If restrictions are needed, I think they should be a state issue, not a federal one (like gun control laws, I suppose). What kind of restrictions? Well, that would depend on the people of that state.
Yangster 71 posts 04-25-03 23:54 Reply	Barrett, most criminals are criminals because they wen through a rough childhood... And an unwilling mother won't be able to take proper care of her child... It is difficult even for didcated mothers to care properly for their child, let alone one that doesn't want the child... I think mothers should be discouraged from abortions, but if they really don't want the child, being denied an abortion may be even worse in the long run...
Darcy 88 posts 04-25-03 23:59 Reply	My grandmother neglected my dad and his siblings shamelessly when they were little...and my dad is no more a criminal than you or I. In fact, they all turned out to be very fine people. Criminals shouldn't blame their mothers for their own crimes........FYI, Hitler's mother cherished him very, very much.
Yangster 71 posts 04-26-03 00:05 Reply	Alright... I guess there are 3 types of people... 1 type wants to inflict their pain to others and the other wants to protect others from their pain... And the 3rd type like Hitler are just monsters...
Barrett 385 posts 04-26-03 00:26 Reply	Yangster, ever heard of adoption? I never once suggested that i think under all circumstances the mother has to keep the child. If you were raped and don't want to take care of a child - don't have an abortion, just give it up for adoption.
Yangster 71 posts 04-26-03 00:40 Reply	Yeh fine... But I'm just saying many mothers wold rather sell them over the internet... And when you guys say incest, I hope you mean incest as in rape...
Darcy 88 posts 04-26-03 00:45 Reply	It’s not just about motherhood...a woman who has suffered the trauma and horror of rape should not be made to go through the pains of childbirth for something she doesn’t even want. If she wants to have the child and then later give it up for adoption, then that’s fine – it’s her choice. But if she doesn’t want to go through with it, then she should not be forced to do so.
Michael Vincent 531 posts 04-26-03 00:53 Reply	"something" ? It's more than something...it's a life.
Darcy 88 posts 04-26-03 01:35 Reply	That depends on what religion one is in.....Most of Christianity believe that life begins conception, while Judaism (as I understand it) says that while an embryo has potential life, it is still considered to be a part of the woman's body, and as such it is not entitled to the same 'human rights' that a normal person would have... No offense to anyone. I myself am leaning towards the former definition, but that's just me
Barrett 385 posts 04-26-03 01:43 Reply	Leaving all religion behind me (it happens to agree with me, but I won't mention its reasons) - I'm pretty sure an embryo/zygote/fetus doesn't know what's going on - so I'm not saying it's cruel to kill it, The problem I have is the baby's <i>potential</i> (html allowed here?). Ask yourself "what if i were aborted?" - judging that you'd rather be alive than dead, it would suck, right? it's almost like asking "what if i just didn't exist?" well, you wouldn't care if you didn't exist, because you wouldn't be there to care about it, but now that you know what life brings, why do you want to take that potential away from someone else?
Darcy 88 posts 04-26-03 06:48 Reply	I see where you are coming from - and I agree. When I said that I am generally pro-choice, I do not mean that I support abortion as birth-control. Teenagers who indulge in irresponsible sex should not be allowed the liberty to abort their fetuses. However, I believe that women in special circumstances (listed in previous posts) should always have the option of abortion opened to them, as long as they do it within the first two trimesters (thus avoiding the barbaric process of partial-birth). Yes, I understand that the fetuses of rape victims also have potential life, but I still think that the rights of the mother in this cases like these should be placed before the fetus. To force her to give birth to a child conceived from rape is like punishing her for a crime she didn't commit. I know that someone out there is going to argue that the child shouldn't be punished for that either....but while I agree that the fetus have potential life, it is not yet a complete human being, and thus should not be entitled to the same "rights" that the mother has. Hmm...looking back at my posts, my arguments aren't entirely pro-choice either. I guess I'm just in the middle

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