Jeremiah Walgren 1187 posts 10-14-05 23:18 Reply	Okay, I have a question for those of Christian faiths (not Mormon) and I'd like the best answer possible. I've heard that most Christian churches view the Fall of Adam and Eve as a bad thing. I think they call it the Original Sin (or something similar, I believe). Why is that? Why is it bad?
kirk 90 posts 10-15-05 02:38 Reply	I am answering this question and will be happy to answer any factual questions you may have about what Christians believe. However, I do not wish to debate on this forum. If it turns into a debate I will stop posting. If you wish to discuss I am happy to do that in a more personal manner. I just want that to be clear. In the first place, not all Christians believe in original sin. Some do not consider it to exist. These believe that people are basically good, or at the worst, neutral. Some also downplay its effects, for example that a person is not responsible for it until an age when they are responsible for their actions. A good portion of Christians do however believe in original sin. The stance on it varies, from simply a blemish that can be washed away in baptism to a through-and-through inherited disease that does not disappear. They believe that Adam and Eve, by their rebellion in the garden, brought sin into the world, perpetually and forever. They hold that Adam and Eve's rebellion, and consequently all mankind's rebellion, separates us from God so entirely that we can do nothing to save ourselves, which required God sending Christ to pay for the sins as the only solution. As for why this is a bad thing, they would hold 1) because it was sinful; 2) because it brought trial and tribulation into the world; and most gravely 3) because it will ultimately result in those not believing in Jesus being sent to hell. I believe that answers your question, but if not, I am happy to clarify.
Jeremiah Walgren 1187 posts 10-15-05 22:01 Reply	That does just fine. Thank you.
slimey_limey 158 posts 10-15-05 23:55 Reply	I'm a Methodist. We don't say anything about sin at all in our church.
Jeremiah Walgren 1187 posts 10-16-05 05:01 Reply	Why?
slimey_limey 158 posts 10-16-05 23:03 Reply	Life (and heaven) is a party, and everyone's invited. You, as an individual, get to decide whether or not to come.
Jeremiah Walgren 1187 posts 10-17-05 03:39 Reply	Ahh, I see.
Dr. NO 522 posts 10-17-05 22:50 Reply	Well, I've been disquailified to talk, but HOW do you decide to go? Erm, better stated, what is the deciding factor as to which "party" you attend? If at all, correct? (Probrably wrong on everything, huh?)
Fr0stbyte124 109 posts 10-18-05 01:31 Reply	If it would make you're gandmother cry, you're probably doing something wrong. Methodists are cool like that.
Jeremiah Walgren 1187 posts 10-18-05 03:10 Reply	I know someone who was a Methodist at one point (LDS now). His parents are still Methodist, if I remember right... He likes to remind all of us "cool" teens that he's seen and heard everything we have. (In some cases, worse than we have too.) Just to let us know that there are worse things waiting for us in the world. (No wonder I feel so optimistic!) On a different note, I overheard a discussion between two people today on the subject of religion. Apparently one of the people was a Jehovah Witness Missionary. Are there any Johovah Witnesses here that can briefly explain what they believe? I wasn't able to catch much of the conversation...
Barrett 385 posts 12-12-05 14:20 Reply	I can explain a bit. The J. Witness church was founded in the late 1800s. They believe that everything we need to know is easy understood by the bible and the bible alone (with, of course, guide books to help you understand the way that they understand). They believe that God's name is Jehovah and they also believe that in order to pray, you have to address him by his name. They believe that God the Father and Jesus Christ are seperate beings, and that the Holy Ghost isn't a being but rather the influence of God. They believe that the scribes that put together the bible were inspired down to writing down things absolutely correctly. They also believe that all bibles say the same thing just in different words. They have about 10-15 scriptures missing from their bible. The person I was talking to (2 Jehovah's Witnesses from California who moved here in some church program to help their church grow here) asked about the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible and told me that they found the Dead Sea scrolls which showed that there weren't any changes in the bible. Then later he told me that the 10 or 15 verses that were removed (well before the dead sea scrolls were found) were not in the original scripts. I'm sure someone can explain that a bit better. That's something that they aren't very familiar with... he said "yeah, there are 2 or 3 of those missing." Also he said that there is a perfectly logical explanation as to why each one is removed, yet they failed to find the appendix where it explains why they were removed. They baptize by immersion. The founder predicted that christ would come in the late 1800s and after that didn't happen he said that christ did in fact come, only invisibly. Then they also had a belief that the final battle would start in 1914 when the spirits were released from heaven or something. (yes, when world war 1 started), but, "this war will not be fought with swords, etc..." The man I was talking to said that world war 1 was caused by that... apparently didn't read about all the stuff that lead up to world war 1, before 1914. They don't believe in having blood transfusions... ever. That stems from the old testament saying stuff about eating meat. They don't call their churches churches, but Kingdom Halls. A very large portion of them are home schooled because they want to stay out of the world. Not all, obviously. I have a good friend who is a Jehovah's Witness who went to my high school.
Xathien 1255 posts 12-13-05 05:48 Reply	Now correct me if this is an urban myth, but don't the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that only the 12k from each of the 12 tribes will be saved (144,000 people in total... now less than the total population of their church)? That's just what I've heard... but from many people.
Michael Vincent 531 posts 12-13-05 05:52 Reply	Correct. I am not very certain of this but I believe they believe the remainder, while not in heaven, will remain on Earth in a sort of state of paradise.
Jeremiah Walgren 1187 posts 12-14-05 00:37 Reply	How do they know who's part of the 12,000 though?
Jeremiah Walgren 1187 posts 12-14-05 00:38 Reply	*12,000 from each tribe for 144,000 total. (I apologize for needing a correction.)
Barrett 385 posts 12-19-05 14:53 Reply	This is one of their doctrines that has changed a bit. Originally 144,000 of them would be saved in paradise and the rest... not. Now, 144,000 will live with god in heaven and become more superior beings or something while the rest of them will live here on the earth (which will become a paradise of some sort). The Jehovah's Witnesses that I was talking to said that they did NOT want to be one of the 144,000 who live with God.
Xathien 1255 posts 12-19-05 17:49 Reply	Some people have the screwiest beliefs. XD Then again, I'm sure all religions get that.
Jeremiah Walgren 1187 posts 12-20-05 03:13 Reply	Why go with a religion that says you might end up with the sweet end of the deal? I don't get it... Then again, I don't think like most people do.
Dexter345 677 posts 12-22-05 02:44 Reply	They believe what they believe because it was what they were taught, not because they looked at every religion and were like, "Well, this one gives me the best benefits, so I'll go with that." It's spiritual, I'm told. Atheists don't disbelieve in a higher being because they think that the idea of death being the end is appealing. I'm sure plenty of them wished that there were an afterlife. But that just doesn't make sense to them.
Dr. NO 522 posts 12-23-05 00:04 Reply	And then there's C.S. Lewis.

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